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Carrie
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Posted: Fri Nov 20th, 2009 12:27 pm |
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Hello My Lovlies!
Can I just start by saying how absolutely blown away I am to meet so many wonderful people! You are all so giving and generous and happy, I love it here! Thank you I appreciate your advice so much 
I've been looking around for information on what Abraham's viewpoint on being vegan/vegetarian is.
I've been a vegan for years now and I do love it but I've a sneaking suspicion I am pointing myself upstream with it. It's not a chore and it does bring me joy but I have to say relation to The Stream I can't figure a way to point downstream when it comes to being a vegan. I thought perhaps if Abraham had touched on this topic I could! There is so much Pushing Against when it comes to veganism...
As much as I love this way of life, if it is the thing I'm holding myself in chronic resistance to then I need to start looking at other options...that's okay too, finding new thnigs to ask for is always a pleasure, I just need a bit of guidance with this one as I feel I'm too involved in the vibration to see it for myself you know?
Thanks!
Carrie
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MaggieRoss
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Posted: Fri Nov 20th, 2009 02:24 pm |
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Hey Carrie,
Can't quote, but can relate the flavor of what I've heard/read that Abe says:
(In fact, on their website is a weightloss video clip...take a look because you can absolutely apply it to your diet.)
Basically, if you're in alignment about it, you can eat anything. If you're in alignment with that package of Oreos and the big glass of milk, knock yourself out - your body will assimilate it properly, no lingering "bad" after effects (like the 4 lbs. that could show up later on.) Heard Jerry tell a story of a guy he worked with who only drank beer - NO FOOD, just beer. He was in alignment.
If you are feeling guilty or out of alignment with your food, then whatever you're "expecting" will probably show up 
As far as not eating meat: Abraham has said that the beasts on this planet 'know what they are getting into.' They are in alignment with what their life experience is going to be, yet they still come, even *knowing* they may end up in a slaughterhouse....because they, TOO, know they are eternal beings and can do it over and over and over again. They come here for the experience, just like us.
SO - if you can work on aligning yourself to your vegan diet so that it feels GOOD and you are ENTHUSIASTIC about it, maybe you will not feel out of sorts about it.
OR, by relaxing into the knowing that the Beasts are already in alignment, taking the step to eating a cheeseburger (as long as YOU FEEL GOOD ABOUT IT!) might not be so hard.
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Hearts of Summer
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Posted: Fri Nov 20th, 2009 02:29 pm |
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Carrie
There are always two sides to the stick - the wanted and the unwanted. From my perspective, it is easy to be vegan/vegetarian by being inclusive rather than exclusive. It is a matter of shifting to a focus on what is wanted - healthy wonderful beautiful glistening plants and fruits that have enough, more than enough, delicious nutrition to keep one so very healthy and vibrant. The sunshine and rain and Source vibrations contained in each one, grown just for you. You choose to eat these things exclusively and feel great and grateful and happy in doing so for so many reasons. Get on a rampage of appreciation about it.
Now I know there's a whole lot to push against, but why bother thinking about that? Just get into the happy side of your choice. The same type appreciation can be applied to any food - it's all a matter of focus. So, you can happily focus on your yummy bounty and not let anyone else's choices affect your pie
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Chesterama
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Posted: Fri Nov 20th, 2009 05:55 pm |
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Hi! I was vegan for a couple years and struggled with it myself. I eventually came to the conclusion that it wasn't for me, and that is ok.
Depending on where you base you beliefs on, you can tune in to whether the lifestyle is upstream or downstream by how you feel. In my personal experience, it was upstream since I got sick a lot, and because I was young and ignorant of the information for a healthy vegan lifestyle out there, that made the choice that much clearer. I also love cheese! Today, honey, cheese and yogurt are the only items that keep me from being vegan. I have eaten this way for years and I believe it is the healthy balance for my body. Once in a while I will have eggs, but I don't crave them since tofu does such a good job of replacing them in breakfast dishes, etc.
My point is, whatever feels right to YOU do it. If this all has to do with moral issues concerning animals, etc....then buy organic if you want to eat meat. One thing you could also do is to get excited about food and find lots of yummy recipes to re-ignite the flame. I spent some time in an ashram earlier this year where strict vegetarianism is practiced and I was exposed to a wide variety of yummy recipes and introduced to eating certain foods earlier in the day....like bean soups and greens for breakfast that I would never have considered before--really changed my view on meal times, for it added an interesting twist to breakfast!
If the thought of eating cheese and other animal foods excites you and adds variety, then I say that choice to add new non-vegan items to your diet is downstream. Whatever works for you...I also found that not being vegan allowed me to eat more socially if that may be something tripping you up to. Good luck!!
Much love,
Rachel
Last edited on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 05:59 pm by Chesterama
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LaughingWolf/CourageousSun
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Posted: Fri Nov 20th, 2009 06:30 pm |
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I was a vegetarian for 6 years. I enjoyed it and it was downstream for me. I never felt good being totally vegan, but I got along very well with cheese and some milk and yogurt. I was easy about my food, I didn't push it on anyone else and I could whip up something tasty and vegetarian from any fast food menu or any kitchen. So it worked well for me.
And then, one day I started craving a roast beef subway sandwich. It got to the point where telling myself not to eat it was uncomfortable, and since I had no moral or strict health reasons why not (I had soothed all of those so much since the time I decided to become a vegetarian) I ended up buying one and thoroughly enjoying it.
I still eat much less meat than most of my friends and I can cook up some darn delicious vegetarian meals, but now I have stopped pigeon-holing myself one way or the other. I eat what feels best to me to eat when I'm ready to eat. That's it.
Radiant Rebecca
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Carrie
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Posted: Fri Nov 20th, 2009 07:19 pm |
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Thank you for these excellent insights, they are so interesting!
Carrie xx
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yogini
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Posted: Fri Nov 20th, 2009 08:25 pm |
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| Hi Carrie, I have had friends and acquaintances in the past that were vegans and members of PETA. I feel that the PETA organization is "pushing against" and very upstream. I think PETA has some good motives but I decided not to focus at all on PETA because every time I listen to what they have to say - I feel bad! And ever since I've been an Aber I just want to feel good! I have been a borderline vegetarian for over 30 years. I eat mostly vegetarian food and I love it! But I also eat turkey on Thanksgiving and I love fresh seafood. So I would suggest doing what feels good to you. Abe has had some good quotes on vegetarianism and hopefully other Abers will point you in the right direction. Namaste, Myrna
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patricia b
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Posted: Fri Nov 20th, 2009 11:23 pm |
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Here is a quote that "Richann" posted on a thread about vegetarianism and spirituality that is in the Search file.
Here's a little of what Abraham has has to say about vegetarianism:
Vegetarianism
The Amazing Power of Deliberate Intent:
Guest: ...I struggle with allowing family and friends who eat animals (due to the suffering of the animals) and especially when co-habiting with someone who desire to have dead animals in the refrigerator and cook them in my house. Can you help me with this?
Abraham: Not really.
Guest: It's a tough one.
Abraham: Well, you have yourself up for a lot of grief because you keep beating the drum. You used every word that you could use to make that a bad thing. So, here is what we would say to you. You cannot have it both ways. You cannot vehemently disapprove of that and have dead carcasses in your refrigerator at the same time. In other words, something must give--and we would work on getting in the flow with the nature of things.
In other words, it is possible that some ruler could become so powerful and get such a big bomb that he could convince all other humans never to eat animals. But you are not ever going to convince the other animals not to eat other animals. The big one is always going to eat the little one. In other words, the big fish is always going to eat the little fish. And when yuo get into the rhythm of that, when you understand that the animals coming forth come forth knowing that, then you do not make it such a big deal.
And we promise you that, as clear-minded as these beasts are (all of you, coming in), if it was not a game they wanted to play, they would not come forth again and again to play it with you, you see. You can let that one go. You do not have to eat meat--but do not push against something that is so prevalent in your society that you have to cringe at it.
Here's another quote on the subject (Asheville, NC, 10/27/01):
Question: Do domestic animals create their own reality? By thinking? So when
they get ill, or slaughtered, they've caused that themselves?
Abe: You teach them competition, which they do not naturally feel. You
teach them behavioral problems, which they do not naturally feel. In other
words, you teach them resistance--in the same way you teach it to your
children.
Well, you have to realize that many of the animals coming in came forth
knowing that they were going to be somebody's food.
Questioner: Why do animals hunt? Let me take that a little bit further ...
Abraham: Well, they didn't know you were going to open a can.
Q; Yeah!
A: In other words, their nature is one of absolute independence, even though you make them dependent and you feed them. So you say, "This animal is not hungry--why is it killing this bird?" We say this animal is continuing to kill this bird because this animal is wanting to continue to express its independence. It's not ever going to get into a place where you need to open a can.
Q: Well then what about ... How come a caribou doesn't just walk up to a bear and say "I know you're hungry. Eat me."
A: They do.
Q: They do?
A: That's how they're chosen. In other words, it's always an agreement.
Q: Well, is it just ... When we look at those wildlife videos and they always show these ... hunts, and the caribou's trying to get away, and I've always been puzzled about that because I believe that there have to be places where a mouse just kinda hops into the mouth of a fox and where the caribou isn't fighting that hard to get away because the caribou understands, "OK. I'm the chosen one. We're, we're now in this together", where .....
A: Well, you have to understand that it is all part of the game also. In other words, here is something that we will promise you: If a caribou were to just lie down and wait, the lion would still chase the ones that are running.
Q: Really.
A: In other words, it is all part of the process. Now, that's not to say that a hungry lion might not stumble upon anything and eat it. But we're wanting you to understand that animals do not look at death in that way. That beast is not fearing for its life. It's running for it's life. In other words, it's running toward the well-being that it continues to enjoy without pushing against death. And that's the thing that's hard for you to--
Q: Ah, yes It is.
A: As you superimpose how you would feel about it [Q: Yes!], it gets very complicated. But the beast does not feel that way. In other words--
Q: Well, and also it's when you were a child, the tone in the video, it teaches you ...
A: Wellllll, what you learned from Bambi [Q: Yes!] gets you all off .. set off kilter.
Q: Exactly! I mean it teaches you that that animal's afraid.
A: Just for a little while, as you are contemplating this in the future days, overlay this sentiment and see if it does not bring you some clarity and resolve. Think in terms of following your bliss, and think of the caribou that is running as following its bliss rather than running from the lion.
Q: Oh, okay.
A: In other words, it's running toward the continuation of its life, but it's not resisting the idea of death. And it's an interesting thing--the caribou that is chosen is chosen accurately by the beast. Always.
Q: OK. That makes sense. OK, I will think of it that way. That is different. OK, and thank you.
A: Yes, indeed. Yes indeed!
Fort Collins, CO, 6/22/02
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Carrie
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Posted: Thu Dec 10th, 2009 10:54 pm |
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These replies were so useful, honestly thank you so much.
I've made such leaps and bounds since I've been using LOA and your quotes to help me with this. It is staggering actually. For 3 years I was totally terrified of food and physically the ramifications from eating were very severe-but now! Oh wow eating is such a joy!!
Love to you all and thank you again! My life has tranformed!!
Carrie 
PS even though I am eating things I have not eaten for years and I now actually get hungry I have lost weight-all this releasing resistance really does work!!!
Cxx
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BarryB
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Posted: Fri Dec 11th, 2009 02:43 am |
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Hello Carrie,
For the past twenty years, I have been vegetarian and vegan for eight of those twenty.
Today I am primarily vegan, although I will eat a piece of cake (made with eggs and milk by others) to celebrate a birthday. I really just want to have fun.
For me the original reason I became a vegetarian was "Diet for a New America", however that was so upstream and bad feeling that I let go of that reason before I even knew what going downstream was about.
It was harder on the people around me than on myself. "What do we cook? what does he eat?" and my parents, "You're so skinny without the meat."
Today I am happy with my choice and even had an incredible trip traveling in Europe this summer, because Vegan options are more align-able with websites like happycow.
I know from experience that you can find a downstream reason for anything you want to align with with practice.
It's really all about having fun, isn't it?
Blessings,
Barry
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ellenyo
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Posted: Fri Dec 11th, 2009 07:20 am |
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I'm the opposite. I'm a total carnivore. I've lost 40 pounds eating nothing but fatty meat, and I feel awesome and healthy. I got convinced it was the best way of eating for me when I real Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes, and recently, the Vegetarian Myth, which blew my mind about all the animals and the ecosystems that have been destroyed by agriculture.
But as much as I love this way of eating, I don't like the notion of "fearing" certain types of food, which for me are carbs and vegetable oils. Type 2 diabetes runs in my family, but if I am a vibrational being, well, I can choose to focus on my health regardless. It's a bit tricky for me right now, since I so thoroughly convinced myself of the "rightness" of eating this way. It's usually a downstream way of eating for me, but even so, I'm now interested in opening up my expectations about food a little more.
So I ordered Abe's CD about thinking myself slim (I still have some pounds to lose) and am going to see what happens with it. I may eventually add in carbs. Actually, I'm eating carbs right now due to "succumbing to the temptaion" of persimmon cookies, which set me off eating more carbs. I feel ucky, and I don't like that feeling. It's rare that I eat carbs. But can I change my beliefs about them?
I guess I'm just saying I understand where you're coming from, even if I'm at the opposite end of the food spectrum.
-Ellen
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camelia
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Posted: Fri Dec 11th, 2009 07:46 am |
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patricia b wrote: But you are not ever going to convince the other animals not to eat other animals. The big one is always going to eat the little one. In other words, the big fish is always going to eat the little fish.
Hehe! does this also apply to capitalism? I guess it does. Hmm...
But in regards to veganism/vegetarianism, it really is about what is downstream. To begin with, for me, vegetarianism was downstream - and then it became upstream. So I became semi-veg. That was downstream for many years. And then it became upstream (dairy allergies, etc). So I became vegan. That would have been so downstream, given that I found the idea of killing animals for my food abhorrent, but I couldn't assimilate protein that way. So it became upstream. I accepted that my body functioned best on a meat diet. I don't always find that downstream. But for my body, it is downstream.
I'm not being lazy. I'm not copping out. I'ts not a case of a lack of commitment. It's just a feeling of being aligned, physically.
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fromknowingtojoy
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Posted: Fri Dec 11th, 2009 07:47 am |
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Hello friends! We are on 80% raw/living vegan foods, 20% cooked vegan. Feeling fabulous! Can eat bagel sometimes, if I really want, or whatever. But in truth, the taste so much change, what I mostly want is what I eat.
We went to a Abe seminar in Bethesda, MD, there are so many restaurants in this small town, we went to an Asian Fusion and to Starbacks, and enjoyed what we wanted. Then home came back to our usual food because that's what we like to eat right now.
People think that it's a deprivation, because they can't comprehend that taste change dramatically - what you craved before does not really bother you anymore. So there is no tension around meat, or coffee, or bread, because what you really want is a big fresh salad with avocado, live soup, live deserts (live cheesecake, raw chocolate truffles, etc.)
I buy veggies organic if available and reasonable, and non-organic too.
I am in a Vortex with my food choice right now. There is no tension. No doubts. Elena
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Carrie
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Posted: Fri Dec 11th, 2009 09:55 am |
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Hi Ellenyo,
honestly what you are saying that's how I felt- I truly believed most food was toxic and dangerous and bad for health etc. I really couldn't see a way out of that thinking but when I did release it it was so fast and so total-and I feel better than I ever had.
I know what Abraham says is true because I never had any issues with food until I started exploring food and reading what to do and what not to do, the more I read the more my body responded to the fear I'd created-and the amazing thing is once I finally made that connection everything just stopped. Now I only get the physical unease I used to get from food when I think negatively!
I love that Abraham quote "they all write all these books on food and they are all wrong" (total adlib so sorry) I read this and on the same day my fiance (who has no idea who abraham is) said to me finally after years of putting up with my obsessions around food "you are so clever-why do you let other people tell you how to think about your own body-and why do you trust them more than you trust yourself" and "food does not make you happy-being happy makes you happy".
Now I chuckle at the thought of my 6 footer rugby playing south african bloke channeling his inner being without even noticing 
Anyway you get my drift-I just wanted you to know how I finaly managed to align with myself over food-and I know you can too-just go to amazon and sell all your books n diet and nutrition like I did!
Cxx
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zenjenn
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Posted: Fri Dec 11th, 2009 03:51 pm |
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I love this thread..my 7 yr old daughter reciently came into conflict over this issue. after reading here..i know i gave an abe answer without knowing thier specific view..
i told her that we all transition( die) so its meant to be. and thats ok..but if it no longer feels good to you you can make a different choice and thats ok too.
Two years ago i was very into the green movement. so much so i got angry with family for not recycling etc. i reciently realized that i was seeing a lack of in the earth. so i began to take my recycling..organic..envirinmentally friendly lifestyle a little more easy..if it feels good i do it, if not..thats ok too.i have the right to choose my own preference without judgement and we all do too much love..zenjenn 
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Free Flowing Joy 2
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Posted: Sat Dec 12th, 2009 09:03 pm |
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LaughingWolf/CourageousSun wrote: I was a vegetarian for 6 years. I enjoyed it and it was downstream for me. I never felt good being totally vegan, but I got along very well with cheese and some milk and yogurt. I was easy about my food, I didn't push it on anyone else and I could whip up something tasty and vegetarian from any fast food menu or any kitchen. So it worked well for me.
And then, one day I started craving a roast beef subway sandwich. It got to the point where telling myself not to eat it was uncomfortable, and since I had no moral or strict health reasons why not (I had soothed all of those so much since the time I decided to become a vegetarian) I ended up buying one and thoroughly enjoying it.
I still eat much less meat than most of my friends and I can cook up some darn delicious vegetarian meals, but now I have stopped pigeon-holing myself one way or the other. I eat what feels best to me to eat when I'm ready to eat. That's it.
Radiant Rebecca
This is me exactly. I was veggie for 6 years. This is exactly how I look at it and live everyday. Rebecca said it for me too
Sometimes I eat meat, sometimes I don't, and labels don't matter to me anymore.
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wakati
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Posted: Sun Dec 13th, 2009 05:08 am |
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There is an excellent exchange about food from the Friday Asheville workshop this past October. I may transcribe later.
It was with someone who is a raw foodist and was opening a raw food restaurant.
A few of the points were:
- Your vibration more solid when you act, than when you speak. And more solid when you speak than when you think. So if you act out of alignment with something you believe to be true, you feel worse. In her case, eating "junk food" when she believes it's not good for her.
- Even though she does not act, she still believes that some food is not good for her. So, there is still some pushing against (resistance).
- Our bodies are made up of trillions of cells that are pure positive energy and they know exactly what we need in order to be in alignment with our escrow.
- If she gets in the Vortex about this, she may find herself wanting some foods that were previously not on her list because it's what her body wants.
The exchange was great. I am currently overweight. It's one of the things that I'm working to align myself on. A good part of it has to do with my relationship with food. This exchange was extremely helpful to me.
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Leigh
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Posted: Sun Dec 13th, 2009 05:30 am |
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We have made progress. What wonderful, enlightened beings we are here.
I have seen the question of vegetarian/vegan VS meat come up:
At an ABE workshop I was at.
On another forum.
And in Summer 2007 on this forum.
The discussion on the thread in Summer 2007 turned nasty and hurtful, with people very defensive. Some choose to leave the forum at that time.
The feel of this thread, of this discussion feels very different.
I am so happy and thankful we have all grown.
Leigh
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Carrie
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Posted: Mon Dec 14th, 2009 10:03 am |
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Wakati I would absolutely love to see this discussion! Do you know if it is about anywhere? It's exactly what I have been looking for!
Thank you
Cxx
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phelana
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Posted: Tue Dec 15th, 2009 10:17 am |
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I appreciate this post immensely...
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