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leewatters
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 01:17 pm |
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Bliss-full wrote: By tapping on the meridians/energy network as we do in EFT, the person can be calmed down very fast, and then the new way of looking at things can replace the old patterns.
And others can achieve the same thing by simply focusing on another thought. And others do it by petting a cat.
And that's the beauty of all of this.
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Timo
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 01:22 pm |
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It's about what feels most easy for you right now. That's all you need to know, ever.
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Bliss-full
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 01:40 pm |
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Last edited on Sat Jul 19th, 2008 02:15 pm by Bliss-full
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Oceanturquoiseblue
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 04:41 pm |
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leewatters wrote: It is debilitating...
If anyone else had written this I would have pictured a post from you, Lee, saying
Firstly, stop saying it's debilitating because that attracts debilitating.
It's only debilitating if you belive it to be.
...Which isn't to say it's not very uncomfortable contrast.
Perhaps, as part of a new story we can say that these are contrasts we 'intended' to spur us on to great expansion? Or they are they are the result of snowballing unwanted vibes, when we were creating by default? I.e. Tell a story that, in some way, allows us to de-personalise or disassociate.
What would Source say about PTSD?
Is PTSD a feeling of powerlessness/vulnerability on the EGS? Is it a case of old thoughts attracting more thoughts of the same type and vibe? Strong thoughts, strong beliefs, strong desires and strong awareness of 'unwanted'?
Doesn't Abe say that the only vibe that matters (which includes thoughts) is your vibe right now? Your vibe right now being something you can choose. You can choose a new story. You can choose to see yourself as you are in VE - free of this.
...As Carol said, "WHEN YOU ARE READY".
Great, thought-provoking thread.
HUGS
Ocean x 
Last edited on Sat Jul 19th, 2008 04:43 pm by Oceanturquoiseblue
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psydoc
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 05:05 pm |
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As a shrink, I have treated many women/men with severe PTSD - even with DID (Dissociative Identity Disorder - it used to be called MPD - multiple personality disorder) I believe they would be on 22 on ABE EGS scale - they are experiencing Fear (from flashbacks) Grief (from realizing what they experienced) Depression, Despair and definitely powerlessness.
I worked with most of these individuals before reading Abe...I am now reworking how I will work with them after understanding Abe's amazing words.
I am struggling, however, with the timing - as I mentioned earlier. Question for you guys that know more than I do about Abe...does Abe believe/suggest that people NEVER speak of the negative of the past OR is it possible when someone is way up (down?) on the EGS, that talking/feeling it helps one to turn downstream? I don't mean talking FOREVER - just feeling it and then letting it go...I feel that the work I do as a Gestalt Psychotherapist helps people to get out of their head (where they are stuck intellectually), into their heart/feelings QUICKLY, and then work through their upstream feelings/ thoughts to the next level thus turning downstream...like walking down emotional stairs of the EGS. 
I am really excited to use Abe in sessions to help people get downstream faster - but I am torn bc I feel the people that come to me need/want to work through and understand the past BUT NOT LIVE IN IT. Does that make sense?
Am I misunderstanding this?
Thanks in advance for ALL of your loving thoughts,
Karen
::boat
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Oceanturquoiseblue
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 05:27 pm |
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psydoc wrote: I am really excited to use Abe in sessions to help people get downstream faster - but I am torn bc I feel the people that come to me need/want to work through and understand the past BUT NOT LIVE IN IT. Does that make sense?
Makes sense to me!
I would suggest that each person can only pivot and flow downstream at the pace their vibe lines them up with there and then. So, from that point of view, you can only approach it according to the individual you are working with as they are in that moment.
...I don't mean talking FOREVER - just feeling it and then letting it go...I feel that the work I do as a Gestalt Psychotherapist helps people to get out of their head (where they are stuck intellectually), into their heart/feelings QUICKLY, and then work through their upstream feelings/ thoughts to the next level thus turning downstream...like walking down emotional stairs of the EGS.
Finding new thoughts. Telling a new story. Shouting blame. Weeping frustration. Relieving pressure. Spotting hope. Breathing deeply into it all. Whatever gives relief to that person in that moment.
Maybe, you don't get this stuff 'right' - you find comfort however you are lined up to find comfort, you feel better individually moment by moment.
Any approach can be a template and I would guess that the freer and more confident you are as the "soother" (can I call you "soother" rather than shrink?  ), the freer and more confident your vibe and, therefore, your sessions will be.
Doesn't Abe say see 'them' as the whole, happy, empowered 'Them' that they are? Dropping labels like PTSD may help with this! And help them to help themselves by knowing they are being uniquely guided by their IBs - your IB can help you with this as you line up with it yourself!! (Neat how that works!)
(Some established patients/clients may move away and some new ones appear in line with your new vibe.)
BTW Hasn't Abe said somewhere that 'conditions' like 'autism' are intentional opportunities to encourage/attract unconditional love? I wonder what 'PTSD' would intend? Unconditional love for self? Opportunity for great release? Realisation of ultimate freedom?
Ocean x
Last edited on Sat Jul 19th, 2008 05:28 pm by Oceanturquoiseblue
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ghanima
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 05:32 pm |
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Some people in this forum, belana the latest I know of, have used with success the method of writing and letting out the thoughts related to every step of the EGS, with the same goal that you mention of 'letting it out of chest and be free to go on'. It might be not resolutive in one go, but it lightens up a good deal.
What is very interesting in the case of therapy is that there's another person there, the therapist, and his/her mirroring reminds you of who you really are when you're not able to remember it yourself. I went to a shrink years ago (who did Gestalt in fact, but checking cognitive techniques he mostly did that with me) and it was a fabulous experience, well he really saved my life. Using aber terms, it's as if he took the role of my IB in front of me, giving me love and acceptance no matter what and pulling my thoughts towards a more free direction, in a phase where I wouldn't possibly be able to connect myself with my IB and do this work of reframing and refocusing on my own, as I was too messed up really to do so. Still, I believe that there is this last layer left inside me where the help of another to un-loop me would make it much easier.
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leewatters
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 05:35 pm |
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Oceanturquoiseblue wrote: leewatters wrote: It is debilitating...
If anyone else had written this I would have pictured a post from you, Lee, saying
Firstly, stop saying it's debilitating because that attracts debilitating.
It's only debilitating if you belive it to be.
...Which isn't to say it's not very uncomfortable contrast.
Touche
The rest of that sentence was: ...if you don't realize that's what is happening and you can do something about it."
Good catch.
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Oceanturquoiseblue
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 05:45 pm |
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leewatters wrote: The rest of that sentence was: ...if you don't realize that's what is happening and you can do something about it."
Good catch.
Great save!
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psydoc
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 05:45 pm |
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Thank you for reminding me about the writing - I ALWAYS have my patients keep a journal where they can write the painful stuff, down - getting it out of their minds/bodies and onto the paper. Once we know where they are then I can help move them downstream via one level, one thought, one feeling at a time. I think Journaling is nice bc they can write things they are too uncomfortable to say outloud - or things they remember in the middle of the night.
I read something similar on abelist - am I aloud to reference it? I thought it was another board run by the same man who started this - but I don't want break a rule...someone let me know if I may write about it.
Karen
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leewatters
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 05:50 pm |
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Oceanturquoiseblue wrote: leewatters wrote: The rest of that sentence was: ...if you don't realize that's what is happening and you can do something about it."
Good catch.
Great save!
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leewatters
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 05:54 pm |
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psydoc wrote: I am really excited to use Abe in sessions to help people get downstream faster - but I am torn bc I feel the people that come to me need/want to work through and understand the past BUT NOT LIVE IN IT. Does that make sense?
Abe's cookie store story may help this make more sense.When you go to the cookie counter, you look at all of what's there -- sugar, rum raisin, oatmeal, chocolate chip (which could be the past things) but without emotion. You don't scream: "Oh, no! Save me from those sugar cookies... they're horrid and they scare me!!!"
You just decide they're not what you want and you choose the oatmeal instead. Then you savor every bit of it.
Does that help?
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AZEche
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 08:33 pm |
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psydoc wrote:
I am struggling, however, with the timing - as I mentioned earlier. Question for you guys that know more than I do about Abe...does Abe believe/suggest that people NEVER speak of the negative of the past OR is it possible when someone is way up (down?) on the EGS, that talking/feeling it helps one to turn downstream? I don't mean talking
Abe doesn't encourage people to keep telling their negative stories and at the same time, Abe acknowledges that you have to start where you are. You can't put a happy sticker over things -- you have to take the emotional journey. I don't think there's any hard and fast rule -- the only way you know whether a thought is upstream or downstream, whether talking about the past is helping or hurting, is how it feels. If there's relief, then you're moving in the right direction. FOREVER - just feeling it and then letting it go...I feel that the work I do as a Gestalt Psychotherapist helps people to get out of their head (where they are stuck intellectually), into their heart/feelings QUICKLY, and then work through their upstream feelings/ thoughts to the next level thus turning downstream...like walking down emotional stairs of the EGS.
I agree, Gestalt is wonderful, especially because so many people have lost contact with their own feelings. As Abe's teachings are all about learning to trust the way you feel, Gestalt is a great way to get people reconnected with themselves.
I am really excited to use Abe in sessions to help people get downstream faster - but I am torn bc I feel the people that come to me need/want to work through and understand the past BUT NOT LIVE IN IT. Does that make sense?
One of the things that Abe's said is that whatever the source of our patterns of resistant thought, those patterns show up in our lives right now. So while some modalities encourage people to resolve the past issues, usually Abe has people approach things the way they are now. It all gets back to whatever gives people relief.
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Bliss-full
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 08:40 pm |
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Yesterday there is a guy I am working with, who says this to me
'' I feel such fear. I don't know what it is. I hate myself.
There is a black cloud in me that terrifies me. '' and he burst into tears and was literally petrified.
He has no idea what was scaring him and lives with this feeling all the time.
I would like to know how the cookie story relates to this situation?
Asking him to 'choose different thoughts' is simply ineffective in a case like this. He is a highly intelligent man who has tried to do this for many years with no success.
Regarding 'the past' - it is important to realise that where emotional response is concerned there is really only NOW.
The patterns that show up in our lives NOW, are no different to the ones we think of as 'in the past' - quantum physics proves there is no such thing as 'time'!! We simply repeat what we know/believe over and over, until we find a cognitive shift - or 'new thoughts'.
It is only our wrong understanding of what is 'past' and 'present' that causes the confusion over some of the tools we can use to move downstream far more easily.
Last edited on Sat Jul 19th, 2008 08:46 pm by Bliss-full
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ghanima
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 08:48 pm |
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| Ocean I find it a bit reductive to say that a shrink is a soother, although it might be that some shrinks can't go farther than that.. In that case they aren't worth the investment in money and time. In my pie.
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