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Forgiveness
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ACIM Believer
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 Posted: Tue Jan 5th, 2010 09:27 pm
Several years ago I was led to the study of ACIM by a friend and spiritual seeker who has recently become a devotee of Abraham.

I understand that A-H uses different a different vocabulary than the traditional Christian-based language of ACIM. Many “new age” authors have done the same, to avoid the negative connotations attached to some of these terms.

The central theme of ACIM is “Forgiveness” – of others, of oneself, of the world – and in my limited exposure to the teachings of Abraham I do not see any conflict between these disciplines. My friend, however, is adamant that forgiveness is an upstream concept, because it recognizes a lack or a “wrongness” to be corrected.

Please assist my learning by clarifying the meaning of “Forgiveness” in the world of Abraham.

Last edited on Thu Jan 7th, 2010 08:21 pm by Marc

Aspen
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 Posted: Tue Jan 5th, 2010 10:25 pm
topic should either be deleted or moved to another section.

forgiveness indicates strong ties to 'sin' for many people which falls under the idea that we have done something wrong. Can't forgive somebody when nothing is technically wrong. That idea while serving a purpose within specific religious organizations doesn't actually mean anything here. I have thought it would fall under closing the gap between ones self and the inner being but that doesn't prevail as it still gets tied to the idea of sin. Although the closing of the gap is accurate it's actually better defined through "The emotional guidance scale" and actually works much better. There is no sin other then the law of equal outcome being if you get something you don't desire then try try again. All injustice is actually just a way of looking at things without the help of your inner being to see we are all connected... all one. Judgment itself falls low the vibrational scale near revenge so it's not actually near the vortex. Not much more to discuss on this issue as that is not the purpose of this forum
. We talk about the teachings of Abraham here.

Last edited on Tue Jan 5th, 2010 10:26 pm by Aspen

Terrie
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 Posted: Tue Jan 5th, 2010 10:36 pm

I think a valid Abe question is being asked. ACIM Believer is trying to understand the teachings of Abraham in correlation to forgiveness... What better place than here on the forum.

 


 

Aspen
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 Posted: Tue Jan 5th, 2010 10:45 pm
Are you familiar with Gary Renard? I believe Gary Renard is featured in 'Living Luminaries' & has a clip on youtube which can better relate the idea from the ACIM standpoint.  I can only see through my own lens and in doing so my observations of forgiveness are that of sin which for me is not a valid Abraham teaching but forgiveness can be seen as a form of closing the gap however their are other words that are easier to grasp. I liked Gary's take on it.

ACIM Believer
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 Posted: Tue Jan 5th, 2010 10:53 pm
Let me add that by searching "ACIM" on this forum I've read quite a bit more on the topics of ACIM and forgiveness.

A thread about Ho’OPonopono (that was new to me) and another titled ‘Nonphysical Contrapictions’ provided much insight.

Aspen, I have read 'Disappearance'. ACIM describes different levels of forgiveness - can't go into that here - I just wanted more insight into why that one word provoked such a dramatic response.

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 Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2010 12:32 am
OK, I’ve finished reading all the posts related to ACIM, and found consistency, for sure.

In ACIM, forgiveness that activates the vibration of wrongfulness is called forgiveness-to-destroy. It is conditional, judgmental, and condescending.

True forgiveness activates the vibration of happiness and peace. True forgiveness is given (and received) by indentifying with and listening to your inner guides, your Self, and by relinquishing judgment. This is named “forgiveness-for-salvation”.

Peace to All

Leslie
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 Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2010 01:25 am
Hey ACIM Believer! I delved into a Course in Miracles for many years--It definitely prepared me for Abe.  Like your friend, I also found the Text dense at first, but after I did the Workbook for a year, the Text magically opened up for me, and I read the whole thing, a page-a-day, pulling out my favorite quote as a talisman for the day. (That's how I got the idea for the Abe Vortex book study group page-a-day format!)


Anyway, this question of Abe and forgiveness--I actually asked them about it in the Hotseat, on the 2008 Mexican Cruise.  The show I perform is all about forgiveness, yet I felt they never talked about it.

What they said was, "Source never forgives, because Source never condemns."
They talked about how people dig themselves into a big hole, and then everyone applauds when they pull themselves out!  Everyone buys the book about how someone thrives after some awful trauma.

They were quite irreverent.::LOL

The thought I had on forgiveness, that I wanted to play off them, was that Forgivness is acknowledging that nothing actually happened, No Harm Done.

They agreed with that, but made the point that whatever the person is 'forgiving someone else for, they were a part of creating it.'  The whole situation is a co-creation.

This is talking about humans forgiving other humans for stuff, not so much "Forgive us our sins."    I haven't listened to it in a while, but at the time, I felt complete with their answer.

Anyway, WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!! Great question!
And I just re-read your answer, about the different effects of forgiveness.
It makes sense to me--there should probably be different words for the different kinds of 'forgiveness.'

Aspen, you're right, this could probably be moved to the Abe and You forum.  I'll ask Marc or David to do that.  Then more people will see it!

And I agree that forgiveness is often linked to sin.  Sin! What a fun word!  "Give me my sin again!" Romeo and Juliet!
::LOL::singer
Leslie

fafaroar522
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 Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2010 04:38 am
When I read acim and it talks about forgiveness, I take it to mean making peace will all that the world is. And once you make peace with everything, you are not vibrating in a resistant way and light is all that's left. The light is the true nature of everything (or how Source would see it) and by forgiving it (or making peace with it) you see the world the way you intended and the way loving Source sees it

Dreamrose
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 Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2010 07:41 am
:kiss:    I study both A.CI.M. and Abraham and don't find any conflict between them just a different but compatible perspectives. My understanding of forgiveness in The Course In Miracles terms is that what your are really forgiving is your mis-perceptions about yourself and other people that come from the conditioned mind, a mind that has listened to and absorbed the messages from people that are out of alignment and who have forgotten Who They Really Are. So when you see yourself or others as not worthy, not abundant, not loving, not well being, you are mis-perceiving things as they really are. It is all good!

 

                                   Peace and Blessings,

                                   Dreamrose ::hearts

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 Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2010 04:51 pm
I finally understood the *Forgiveness* idea once I read the following quote:

"To forgive is to set a person free and discover that person was YOU."

There really is nothing to forgive. We ASKED for Conflict and Contrast in this incarnation because of the Joyful Journeys that they start.

And since we are eternal we NEVER want Conflict and Contrast to stop showing up! Forever joyfully expanding!

lovingit
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 Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2010 06:48 pm
Sparklebright wrote:
"To forgive is to set a person free and discover that person was YOU."
YES! My idea of forgiveness is For Giving Yourself a break. Letting the other person or yourself off the hook, letting go (moving up the EGS) of anger, guilt, blame, in this way you get closer to seeing the other or the situation through the eyes of Source.

There really is nothing to forgive. We ASKED for Conflict and Contrast in this incarnation because of the Joyful Journeys that they start.

And since we are eternal we NEVER want Conflict and Contrast to stop showing up! Forever joyfully expanding!

I absolutely agree that in Source's eyes there is never anything to forgive for there is never anything wrong, but, most of us have been knocking around on planet earth for a while now, picking up (and taking on board) all sorts of false premises about right and wrong and good and bad, etc... so, for us, I think, 'forgiveness' is just a useful way to make yourself feel better.

When you are angry with another, or blaming another, or blaming yourself for something, then you are dis-conneted from Source, when you can let go of that anger/blame, and honestly, truly say "No one's fault' or 'No harm done' then you have 'forgiven', and the person who benefits is you, cos you get back your connection to Source.

I don't think Abe would say it is 'wrong' to forgive, they would just say that it's unnecessary, but if it makes you feel better, then go ahead!

Rach

::hugging

 


 

patricia b
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 Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2010 07:54 pm
ACIM said:

The central theme of ACIM is “Forgiveness” – of others, of oneself, of the world – and in my limited exposure to the teachings of Abraham I do not see any conflict between these disciplines. My friend, however, is adamant that forgiveness is an upstream concept, because it recognizes a lack or a “wrongness” to be corrected.



"Forgiveness" as we have been conditioned to understand the word, is what your friend considers "upstream."  And as several other people have wisely pointed out, the  term implies that something has gone wrong, when the reality is that a co-creation took place.

Abraham seems guide us toward always seeking the Broader Perspective:  That WE or the OTHER did whatever was done because it was a word or action that offered "relief" at the time.

*We* were where we were at the time, and the *other person* was where he/she/ was at the time, and so it could not have unfolded any other way.

I like the way St. Germain plays with the word "forgive": "FOR-go revisiting the issue; GIVE up whatever connection of thought (especially self-recrimination!) you have going on about it."

Another well-known wording on this is "Your point of power is in the NOW." (Seth) 

You cannot be fully empowered with the energy of Who You REALLY Are if you are mucking about in the past.  You always ARE more in every moment of NOW because you have added unto yourself through additional elements put into the Vibrational Reality in your Vortex.

 

 

 

tonycat
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 Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2010 10:36 pm
Sparklebright wrote: I finally understood the *Forgiveness* idea once I read the following quote:
"To forgive is to set a person free and discover that person was YOU."

There really is nothing to forgive. We ASKED for Conflict and Contrast in this incarnation because of the Joyful Journeys that they start.

And since we are eternal we NEVER want Conflict and Contrast to stop showing up! Forever joyfully expanding!

 IN A NUT SHELL ! ! ! ! ! !   :exactly: !!

ACIM Believer
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 Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2010 01:08 am
Thanks to everyone for their responses. Thanks to the moderators for moving this thread to the appropriate forum, and for their tolerance. (Is that upstream?)

Incidentally, in ACIM “sin” does not stand for a violation of the social and cultural norms that are judged as ‘right and ‘wrong’. It simply means, “A false idea about one of God’s creations,” (all of whom are perfect).

Gleaned from all of the responses are these thoughts that reflect the ACIM meaning of forgiveness.

Forgiveness is acknowledging that nothing actually happened, No Harm Done."

"Whatever the person is 'forgiving someone else for, they were a part of creating it.'  The whole situation is a co-creation."

"Making peace will all that the world is."

"What you are really forgiving is your misperceptions about yourself and other people that come from the conditioned mind. When you see yourself or others as not worthy, not abundant, not loving, not well being, you are misperceiving things as they really are."

"When you can let go of that anger/blame, and honestly, truly say "No one's fault' or 'No harm done' then you have 'forgiven', and the person who benefits is you, because you get back your connection to Source."


ACIM teaches:


Forgiveness recognizes what you thought your brother did to you has not occurred.

One last quote illuminates an idea that is common to ACIM and many other spiritual disciplines – that all experience can only occur in the “now”.

"You cannot be fully empowered with the energy of Who You REALLY Are if you are mucking about in the past." 

In ACIM, The purpose of forgiveness is release from the past.


dmimcg
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 Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2010 04:19 am
This is a very good forum, first time in.  I'll be back.

Chariot
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 Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2010 08:06 am
I like what Abraham said about forgiveness.  We want you to forgive not because the other person deserves your forgiveness, but because you do. When you forgive someone else, you release negative emotions that don't serve you, so forgiving is actually for your own benefit. Holding on to thoughts that don't feel good causes more harm to self than to the one being resented.

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 Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2010 05:11 pm
Chariot wrote: When you forgive someone else, you release negative emotions that don't serve you, so forgiving is actually for your own benefit. Holding on to thoughts that don't feel good causes more harm to self than to the one being resented.


"As prayer is always for yourself, so is forgiveness always given you. It is impossible to forgive another, for it is only your errors you see in him. You want to see them there, and not in you. That is why forgiveness of another is an illusion. Yet it is the only happy dream in all the world.

"Only in someone else can you forgive yourself, for you have judged him, and in him must your innocence now be found."

Last edited on Thu Jan 7th, 2010 07:17 pm by ACIM Believer

Evey
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 Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2010 06:35 pm
Or you could just get into the Vortex. No forgiveness is needed from inside from anyone about anything. From inside you see the value of all step 1 work and expansion. From inside....you connect to unconditional love for all that is!

 

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 Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2010 07:28 pm
From my ACIM point of view, forgiveness is what changes your vibration; it's how you get into the vortex.

In non-duality forgiveness is not necessary. But you asked for contrast, right? You are one with all that you created.

Last edited on Thu Jan 7th, 2010 08:46 pm by ACIM Believer

tonycat
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 Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2010 08:13 pm
 Nothing to forgive...It's all perfect.  Does the actor forgive the other actor for shooting him in the movie?  Nope...They just go out for drinks after the movie is over and discuss the next role!!  IT'S ALL G(o)OD!!!!!!


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